2023 October 10

Daily news wrap-up

Pashinyan discloses secrets during interview: Negotiations, Granada, Russia, CEPA, enclaves, corridors \\\ Nagorno-Karabakh soldier's story \\\ Ruling party candidate elected as Yerevan mayor \\\ Anti-corruption
by ar_david_hh

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English-language ad hoc report was prepared by the Human Rights office documenting war crimes committed by Azerbaijan against Nagorno-Karabakh civilians

It documents the blockade, starvation, bombardment of civilian houses and infrastructure, disruption of the internet and other forms of communication with the outside world, civilian deaths and injuries, missing persons, and Azerbaijan's policy of ethnic cleansing.

[the report](https://www.ombuds.am/images/files/e76a3b67b4a56fadb3271705e33eeec5.pdf)

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army soldier recalls the battles on September 19-20:

We were anticipating an attack because we saw their accumulations on the border. We couldn't stay for long in the frontlines because of food shortage. There was a lack of food in the army. [Nagorno-Karabakh was under a blockade for 9 months]

I was the leader of a GRAD unit. We were positioned on a hill with dense forests near the village of Lusadzor. Our convoy was targeted but we were able to reach the positions and send the enemy coordinates to our artillery units. Our artillery fired nonstop. The enemy had 10x more power but our units put up a strong resistance.

On September 20th the enemy reached the outskirts of the capital Stenapakert. The distance was close enough to use rifles. We were close to running out of shells and rockets. An order was issued to retreat.

The enemy surrounded Stepanakert and our forces in the Martuni and Martakert regions.

A self-defense protocol was initiated in Stepanakert. Resistance hotspots were formed to patrol every 30 meters. Residents and retreating soldiers kept their rifles and waited for the enemy in Stepanakert, but the enemy did not enter the city.

Azeris took control of the water distribution network. There was no filtration. Mud water was being pushed through the tap. The residents' main task was to find fuel so they could leave the city. Many couldn't find their relatives. //

[article,](https://hetq.am/hy/article/161059)

Yerevan Council elects ruling party's incumbent Tigran Avinyan as mayor

PM Pashinyan's "QP" party and pro-Western former PM Aram Sargsyan's "Republic" party signed a coalition to manage the city. "We are opponents, not enemies," said the Republic party when asked why they agreed to a coalition with QP. "Stability is important right now."

The Council voted 32-5 to elect Tigran Avinyan as mayor. The 5 opponents were the members of fugitive Dog's party. Dog decided that his party would not boycott the session. This meant the Council had the necessary >50% quorum to launch the session. Since the other two opposition parties were no-shows, Tigran Avinyan was able to gain majority votes.

No coalition was formed between Avinyan and Dog and they remain ideological opponents. Dog is against Avinyan and will likely attempt to impeach him next year, but Dog also didn't want the former regime to return to power and didn't want new elections to be organized in the midst of the Nagorno-Karabakh crisis. Dog's party member said it would not have been moral for them to trigger new elections under the current conditions, and that even if there were new elections, they would still have the same gridlock, so it was time to move on.

Avinyan said he refused to form a coalition with other opposition parties because he views them as being corrupt and puppets of foreign regimes [Russia]. He took a swipe at Hayk Marutyan for his post-election negotiations with the former regime.

... PM Pashinyan about Yerevan elections

REPORTER: Your candidate Tigran Avinyan was elected as mayor. This was more like the opposition defeating itself, rather than you winning the elections.

PASHINYAN: The real winner is the democracy. As I had promised earlier, I'd rather cut my army off than rig elections. The difference of as little as 50-150 votes could have changed the number of Council seats. Parties that supported the 2018 revolution's values won >60% of the votes. Revolution won again. It's another question whether [Hayk Marutyan] is an honest supporter of those values, or a manipulator. I'd like to thank [ex-PM Aram Sargsyan's] Republic party for staying true to the revolution's values. They were able to win a significant number of votes thanks to that. We will manage the city jointly.

... a reporter had a question for Republic party leader Artak Zeynalyan after he formed a coalition with Avinyan

REPORTER: Nagorno-Karabakh is in the hands of Azerbaijan now. The ruling party is blamed for the situation, after Pashinyan's statement in Prague. You took part in the first Karabakh war and helped liberate it. How could you cooperate with Pashinyan's party now?

ZEYNALYAN: Pashinyan did not surrender Nagorno-Karabakh in Prague. And you don't lose a war *during* the war, you lose it during the *preparatory* phase. The current situation is an outcome of many years of inaction and processes. It started a few decades ago when Armenia signed an agreement to establish the presence of the Russian military base and border agents, later extending it. This was an error. I will do everything in my power to ensure Nagorno-Karabakh remains Armenian, and to protect the rights and security of Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh. We will use the available governing tools to help achieve this outcome. //

[source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEpGsTVfwdQ) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPreeASM_gk) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab73ADhySzc) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOibfyYj6U4) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zPB2JFceRc) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0Mp4lFrQXo) [source,](https://www.civilnet.am/news/753732/տիգրան-ավինյանն-ընտրվեց-երևանի-քաղաքապետ/) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqaz9LJrb-0) [source,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpP_OWDmc2o)

Pashinyan will also skip the Russian-led CIS meeting in Kyrgyzstan

Yesterday we learned that FM Mirzoyan had canceled his planned meeting with FM Lavrov and FM Bayramov. Today Pashinyan informed Kyrgyzstan that he will not attend the October 13 session, either.

[article,](https://www.civilnet.am/news/753824/փաշինյանը-չի-մասնակցի-ապհ-առաջնորդների-խորհրդի-նիստին/)

Pashinyan about the outcome of the Granada meeting

REPORTER: Why did you attend the meeting in Granada if Aliyev wasn't there? What did the Granada meeting give us?

PASHINYAN: It gave us two important statements made jointly by FR-DE-EU-AM, and the joint statement between AM-EU (Ursula von der Leyen). (1) We now know that within Europe there is a consensus on the need to deepen the relations with Armenia. (2) The EU and AM both have similar opinions on the pillars of peace for our region.

The pillars: (1) AM-AZ mutual recognition of territorial integrity on specific km^2. (2) The AM-AZ border delimitation must take place under the 1991 Alma-Ata Declaration with the latest Soviet-era maps. (3) Regional communication routes must be unblocked with full respect to the sovereignty of states. (4) AM and EU condemned Azerbaijan's military aggression against Nagorno-Karabakh. (5) The EU and the US agree to help AM with the refugee influx. (6) The EU agrees that Armenians of NK must have the right to return to NK without any preconditions and that their right to return must be protected. (7) The EU is willing to deepen relations with AM, and AM decides where the limits are.

Now the negatives: (1) AZ was not present and didn't sign under the statement. Had Aliyev appeared and signed under the aforementioned statement, the likelihood of us signing the peace agreement by the end of this year would be >70%.

... Pashinyan about Armenian and Azerbaijani enclaves

REPORTER: During a phone call with EU's Charles Michel, Aliyev said he wants Armenia to hand over the enclaves with 8 villages.

PASHINYAN: Azerbaijan's official reason for not attending the Granada meeting was France's pro-Armenian position. But there is another explanation, the correctness of which we can check very soon. That alternative explanation is that Azerbaijan is doing everything possible to prevent peace in the region. They could move forward with certain topics to intentionally derail the peace negotiations. This is why it's important for Armenia to set aside emotions, register the issues raised by Azerbaijan, and adopt pro-Armenian positions that are clear to the world and our public.

Azerbaijan raises the issue of 8 villages [enclaves]. We too have an issue with 8 of our villages being under Azerbaijani control. You're aware that in the Tavush region we have lands occupied by Azerbaijan. These are lands belonging to our villages Berkaber, Aygehovit, Bazashen, Paravaqar, etc.

We offered a solution in 2021: Let's agree around a map for a delimitation, record the legal AM-AZ state borders, and withdraw troops on both sides in a mirrored fashion. People often mistake this for withdrawing troops from current positions, but what I'm saying is to withdraw troops from legal borders.

By the way, even if we use Soviet maps from years other than 1975, the overall territory of Armenia in all of them is secured as 29,800 km^2. I mention this because there is a debate on which maps to use. Sure, there may be some differences between the maps, but the overall territory is the same. Let's keep that in mind.

REPORTER: There are many countries that have recognized each other's territorial integrity but haven't delimited their borders yet. Why aren't we using the 2017 OSCE document on delimitation that encourages an agreement around a set of principles before the actual delimitation process?

PASHINYAN: We *are* using that OSCE document. It was created based on the successful delimitation between Lithuania and Belarus. We've used that and continue to use that to delimit our borders with Georgia. We're attempting to use it with Azerbaijan. The problem is that the AM-AZ process hasn't even launched yet, we are still in the phase of reaching an agreement around the principles. The mutual recognition of Alma-Ata is that *principle* based on which we can launch the delimitation process.

Azerbaijan openly states that it recognizes Armenia's territorial integrity, but we need to hear a specific km^2, otherwise, those statements don't mean much. Armenia and Azerbaijan reached an agreement on 14 May in Brussels to mutually recognize territorial integrity with a specific km^2 number but we haven't heard Aliyev himself state a specific km^2 since that meeting.

We will recognize Azerbaijan's 86,600 km^2 only if they recognize Armenia's 29,800 km^2. That is what we agreed in Brussels.

Negotiations around enclaves was/is inevitable because they are part of our country. Artsvashen is part of Armenia [occupied by Azerbaijan]. No government of Armenia has the right to ignore our territories. What's necessary is to have a map that was created legally, that justifies the existence of each enclave.

Maintaining enclaves on both sides will bring a host of issues: access to enclaves, defense of enclaves, etc. There are multiple solutions for addressing these issues:

(1) We sit down with Azerbaijan and draw a meticulous plan to address every one of the aforementioned questions.

(2) We realize that the issues of managing enclaves are so complex that it's better to "swap" the enclaves, so each country keeps the enclaves within its territory.

Either way, we must first examine the legal documents and understand which enclaves were created legally.

Our top priority right now is to show the world that Armenia is ready to discuss the issue of enclaves with Azerbaijan. We must not avoid discussing issues and solutions. We must prevent further escalation. For this, we must not "delay" the discussions around enclaves. Quite the contrary, we must strive for real and transparent solutions.

... Pashinyan about the unblocking of regional communication routes and railway through Meghri

PASHINYAN: We've never signed or agreed to give any extraterritorial corridor to Azerbaijan, unlike the 5-kilometer-wide Lachin Corridor that Azerbaijan agreed to. We also did not agree to give control of the trade route passing through Armenia to other states. You can read the 2020 ceasefire agreement.

We support the railway route passing through Meghri. There is no other option, actually. That's the area where we used to have a functional railway in the past. There is also the Ijevan-Hrazdan-Gazakh link but that's not on the table because resolving the issue of landslides alone would cost over $500 million. The landslide became an issue 20-30 years ago near the Haghartsin section.

We have no problem whatsoever with restoring the Meghri railway. Its restoration would benefit Armenia economically. It would be the end of the blockade on Armenia. It would also strengthen peace in our region.

Could a vehicle road pass right next to the railway? Likely not. International experts agree that the terrain is too difficult. But the vehicle road is a technical issue that can be addressed once we resolve the differences around principles of sovereignty.

The unblocking of these routes would benefit Armenia, Turkey, and Azerbaijan.

The length of the railway link passing through Armenia would be 47 km only. Critics argue that for the sake of traveling 47 km, we are demanding too much: customs, passports, phytosanitary, etc. Our critics believe we are making it intentionally hard to pass through it, to the point that it won't be worth it. Hopefully, someday the Armenia-Azerbaijan relations will be as good as Armenia-Georgia relations. We have taken steps to simplify travel to/from Georgia. Nowadays it's common for countries to simplify the transfer of goods and passengers. Globally, the main issue today is travel time. Various routes are competing with each other. They need to be competitive cost- and speed-wise. If Azerbaijan sets aside the claims on Armenia's sovereignty, we will be willing to negotiate various options [to make the trade route competitive].

... Pashinyan about the current state of ceasefire on Armenia-Azerbaijan border

REPORTER: Does the situation remain tense on the AM-AZ border?

PASHINYAN: I receive a daily briefing on ceasefire violations. One bullet, a single bullet, was fired on the AM-AZ border over the past 24 hours. There is currently no accumulation of troops on either side. But it takes a few hours to deploy troops. A war would be pointless if Armenia and Azerbaijan reached an agreement around the aforementioned issues.

... Pashinyan about the fate of Russian peacekeepers in Nagorno-Karabakh

REPORTER: The peacekeepers remain in Nagorno-Karabakh. They regularly issue reports on "helping Armenians". (A) Is there a point in Russian peacekeepers remaining in Nagorno-Karabakh? (B) If the Russian peacekeepers leave, could they move to Armenia and stay here?

PASHINYAN: (A) It's not entirely up to Armenia to decide if they will stay in Nagorno-Karabakh. Russia has been discussing with Azerbaijan and Armenia the presence of its peacekeepers in Nagorno-Karabakh. (B) If the peacekeepers leave Nagorno-Karabakh, I don't see the logic of them remaining in Armenia, they should return to Russia. It doesn't matter whether they return to Russia through the territory of Armenia or Azerbaijan.

... Pashinyan about the fate of the 102nd Russian military base and Russian Border Guards in Armenia

PASHINYAN: There are no discussions around the removal of Russian military base and border guards from Armenia.

... Pashinyan about Armenia-Russia relations

REPORTER: Armenian cognac had difficulty entering Russia. Will the EU open its market for us if Russia decides to ban Armenian products?

PASHINYAN: I don't understand the cognac question. The trucks passed through customs checkpoint days later. Let's not mix various stories. There have been hundreds of similar cognac holdups at the border over the past few decades. We have received reassurances that there is no political context in that story. We have verified that the procedural reason behind the cognac holdup was a process that began well before the [recent crisis in AM-RU relations].

The lesson for our businesses is as follows: pay more attention to product quality and standards. This is something that we, as a state, should pay attention to, if we want stable and guaranteed markets.

We have a CEPA agreement with the EU and an EAEU agreement with Russia. Both of these markets will be "open" to us if our products are of high quality and competitive. Who told you the EU market is "closed" today?

REPORTER: Are you changing Armenia's vector away from Russia?

PASHINYAN: No. Our relations with the EU are developing in line with the CEPA agreement. CEPA was signed and ratified before 2018 [under a pro-Russian leader in Armenia]. My administration hasn't changed the vector. We continue to develop our relations with the EU in line with the CEPA agreement signed prior to 2018. *[nice крутит, ապ]*

REPORTER: Then how do you explain the heated diplomatic exchanges between AM-RU in recent times?

PASHINYAN: Armenia and Russia, just like the rest of the world, have problems today. But what you see today isn't an Armenia-Russia problem, it's a West-Russia problem.

REPORTER: Then why don't you visit the CIS session, why don't you send Armenian troops to take part in CSTO drills, why did you send a deputy minister instead of a minister?

PASHINYAN: We have never concealed the issues that we have with CSTO after the 2021 events. Look at our statements before 2021 - no issues. The problems began after their inaction against the invasion of the Sotk-Khoznavar territories.

I'll open a little secret from my first-ever meeting with Vladimir Putin. This was in May or June 2018 in Sochi. Putin told me straightforwardly that he is aware of rumors claiming that Russia likes to meddle in the internal politics of ex-USSR republics to degrade their sovereignty, so he promised to respect Armenia's sovereignty and its right to make independent decisions. We decided to build AM-RU relations based on that agreement.

Armenia has not relinquished any promises and obligations in AM-RU relations, but at the same time, we won't shy from publicly speaking about the existing problems.

... Pashinyan about Armenia's ratification of the Rome Statute

PASHINYAN: The ratification is unrelated to Putin. The timing is pure coincidence. I called Russia in [March] to explain the coincidence in timing. My impression is that they understood the situation and we agreed to continue the discussions.

By the way, Armenia and the US have a special mutual agreement that "overrules" other international legal processes. We have offered Russia to sign a similar agreement. The Rome Statute allows for this. The Rome Statute says you can ratify the statute while still having two-way agreements with other states. These two-way agreements can be signed before or after the ratification.

[video,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpP_OWDmc2o)

anti-corruption

⚖️ Authorities have filed criminal charges against the 2006-2016 mayor of Sers, Vayots Dzor. He is accused of illegal land transactions and embezzling funds collected from a land deal signed between the community and a telecom operator.

⚖️ Authorities have filed criminal charges against the 2001-2019 mayor of Parakar, Armavir. He is accused of conspiring with other municipal employees to falsify documents, embezzle funds through a scheme involving his family members, etc.

⚖️ After 3 years of investigation, authorities have filed criminal charges against the former head of the State Protection Department of Police. He is accused of laundering ֏1.5B ($3.7M) and embezzling state funds with the help of other ranking police officials. The alleged crimes occurred in 1992-2018.

'The suspects are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law.'

[article,](https://hetq.am/hy/article/161052) [article,](https://www.armtimes.com/hy/article/271129) [article,](https://hetq.am/hy/article/161069) [video,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tZd9S9PLMc)

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Link to original report and comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/174xilz/pashinyan_discloses_secrets_during_interview/